Curse

iridescentfyre · Jan 28, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

If it's average, why does this entire forum and half my alliance treat me like I'm the village idiot for suggesting it?

The problem is that there is no reason in the game for running a B/P ranger as a primary warrior. You're trading Expertise for Strength and pointless extra armor, and have significantly worse energy management on top of that. You may have arguably compensated for that by using a Zealous bowstring, but you should be using vampiric with Barrage. On top of all this, Barrage builds aren't even that good on a primary ranger to start with—you've made a borderline-bad build worse.

I'm not going to call you an idiot, but please do not act like we're the jerks for not wanting to group with a build like that. People trying to get PUG groups in-game are doing so because they want to succeed, not because they want to see "creative" builds. Play whatever you want, but you need to accept that if you insist on playing a build like that, you're going to be in the company of heroes and henches pretty frequently.

Taurucis · Jan 28, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

The problem is that there is no reason in the game for running a B/P ranger as a primary warrior. You're trading Expertise for Strength and pointless extra armor, and have significantly worse energy management on top of that. You may have arguably compensated for that by using a Zealous bowstring, but you should be using vampiric with Barrage. On top of all this, Barrage builds aren't even that good on a primary ranger to start with—you've made a borderline-bad build worse.

Well, I want the Urgoz monument on my Warrior. And the only way for me to get the Urgoz monument on my Warrior, is to B/P. You want me to try being a spirit spammer? A nuker?

All that matters, is that my energy is at max, or near max. My energy doesn't need to be hitting the limit every time I barrage, because that 3-4 energy extra gets wasted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

I'm not going to call you an idiot, but please do not act like we're the jerks for not wanting to group with a build like that. People trying to get PUG groups in-game are doing so because they want to succeed, not because they want to see "creative" builds. Play whatever you want, but you need to accept that if you insist on playing a build like that, you're going to be in the company of heroes and henches pretty frequently.

Well, I didn't ask you to group with me, so I can't really call you a jerk...

They're jerks because they don't want to try something new. I heard that if you want to have fun, join a nice, relaxed guild, which I did. Now they're showing build elitism on par with Heroes Ascent.

I already am doing only H/H, my guild has pretty much stopped doing stuff together, it seems.

iridescentfyre · Jan 28, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

They're jerks because they don't want to try something new. I heard that if you want to have fun, join a nice, relaxed guild, which I did. Now they're showing build elitism on par with Heroes Ascent.

I would agree, if what you were suggesting was at least as good as R/Rt for Barrage. Trying something new is cool if its going to be on par with what you're replacing. Its not though—its a self-imposed handicap… that's why no one wants to let you try it in their group. It may be fun for you, but for everyone else its a risk to fail the mission.

I'll be honest, I don't know what PUGs are running these days in Urgoz... I don't use PUGs very often. Assuming B/P is what they're running now, I have a real hard time believing they're going to let a barrage W/R into the group, for the very reasons I just stated. You should just get in an Ursanway group.. it doesn't matter what class you are.

Taurucis · Jan 28, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

I would agree, if what you were suggesting was at least as good as R/Rt for Barrage. Trying something new is cool if its going to be on par with what you're replacing. Its not though—its a self-imposed handicap… that's why no one wants to let you try it in their group. It may be fun for you, but for everyone else its a risk to fail the mission.

To be honest, I don't do missions anymore... My Warrior's completed every single one. And most of the missions are either boring, too hard, or too easy...

I can't get the Urgoz monument on my Warrior if I bring my ranger into Urgoz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

I'll be honest, I don't know what PUGs are running these days in Urgoz... I don't use PUGs very often. Assuming B/P is what they're running now, I have a real hard time believing they're going to let a barrage W/R into the group, for the very reasons I just stated. You should just get in an Ursanway group.. it doesn't matter what class you are.

It wasn't a pug,

It was a full alliance group except for 2 people we picked up.

There were no Ursanway groups, we were the only people there.

Earth · Jan 28, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

You could always go Ursan if you want your Urgoz monument so badly.

Or just not run barrage on a warrior

I honestly see no reason why you would run that.

Asha Rai · Jan 28, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Ranger with 13 expertise and 3 pips of energy regen:
barrage costs 2 energy, with 3 energy regenerated every 3 secs -> barrage can be used once every 2 seconds

Warrior with zealous bow string (1 pip of energy regen) hitting 3 targets:
barrage effectively costs 2 energy, with 2 energy regenerated every 6 seconds -> barrage can be used once every 6 seconds

Thus based only off barrage, the ranger has the potential to do 3 times more damage, and activate things like oov, mark of pain, and barbs much more often. The ranger will also have the energy to use savage shot and d'shot which is no small matter. The ranger can also take a second profession (rit for splinter weapon and hard res, necro for mark of pain and barbs, monk for hard res, ele for conjure spells, etc) and potentially do an order of magnitude more damage.

Also, I can't see save yourselves being used much if you can shoot off barrage only once every 6 seconds. And if you aren't shooting single and double targets with barrage, imo opinion you are handicapping yourself and your group.

Taurucis · Jan 28, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

You could always go Ursan if you want your Urgoz monument so badly.

Or just not run barrage on a warrior

I honestly see no reason why you would run that.

A change of heart eh?

There are ABSOLUTELY NO ursanway groups in Urgoz. Not even a PuG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

Ranger with 13 expertise and 3 pips of energy regen:
barrage costs 2 energy, with 3 energy regenerated every 3 secs -> barrage can be used once every 2 seconds

Warrior with zealous bow string (1 pip of energy regen) hitting 3 targets:
barrage effectively costs 3 energy, with 2 energy regenerated every 6 seconds -> barrage can be used once every 6 seconds

In Urgoz, there are parts where you've got about 9, 10 people mobbed up, more than what Barrage allows. I'm not saying that the Warrior build is better, I'm saying that it is usable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

Thus based only off barrage, the ranger has the potential to do 3 times more damage, and activate things like oov, mark of pain, and barbs much more often. The ranger will also have the energy to use savage shot and d'shot which is no small matter. The ranger can also take a second profession (rit for splinter weapon and hard res, necro for mark of pain and barbs, monk for hard res, ele for conjure spells, etc) and potentially do an order of magnitude more damage.

Zealous weapons deal physical damage. Again, I'm not saying that this is better, I'm saying that it is something that can get me through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

Also, I can't see save yourselves being used much if you can shoot off barrage only once every 6 seconds. And if you aren't shooting single and double targets with barrage, imo opinion you are handicapping yourself and your group.

I didn't see any of the other B/Ps in my team using Barrage on single targets.

Actually, I could pull off Save Yourselves every 6-7 seconds while shooting 3 targets.

Asha Rai · Jan 28, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Again, I'm not saying that this is better, I'm saying that it is something that can get me through.

In that case, use it =) Most things are usable, but don't be surprised if a group chooses something more usable over something less usable.

Taurucis · Jan 28, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

In that case, use it =) Most things are usable, but don't be surprised if a group chooses something more usable over something less usable.

Last time I checked, it wasn't possible to bring heroes/henchmen into Urgoz...

iridescentfyre · Jan 28, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Last time I checked, it wasn't possible to bring heroes/henchmen into Urgoz...

Check more often

Magikarp · Jan 28, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

sorry, but as a warrior, you just totally offended me with this.. "build".

Taurucis · Jan 28, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

sorry, but as a warrior, you just totally offended me with this.. "build".

I can offend you with more than this build if you'd like. <3

Mickey · Jan 28, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

How bout you people stop your RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing bitching and help her out? Jesus, wtf is everyone's problem on guru, it's like hiding behind an internet cable allows you be an asshole.

Your build is, yes, not as effective as a Ranger can play it, but it is workable.

You have Dodge This there, I would recommend getting I Am The Strongest! You can pre-use it, and it will work great, unless Dodge This works on all the arrows, it's not that great.

You said there were no energy issues, so I am inclined to believe you.

If you really wanted to switch it around, and use adrenaline more, you could put all your points into Tactics, bring Fear Me, and Never Rampage Alone at a high sunspear rank, but that might be too energy intensive.

I'm not that great with Warriors, but I know enough to tell me that you will probably have issues with 2 enemies or less, then I recommend just using I Am The Strongest, and letting the normal attacks hit for 18+ damage with I Am The Strongest.

Stormlord Alex · Jan 28, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

it's like hiding behind an internet cable allows you be an asshole.

It's the truth, though.

Asshole in real life = someone bigger than you kicks your ass and/or eats your spleen.

Asshole on t3h intarw3bs = some anonymous nobodies whine/flame you back, no real retribution.

For some, it lets them explore a side of themselves that they wouldn't do in reality - normally nice people let out feelings they couldn't bring themselves to to 'real' people, face to face.
For others, they're just jerks all the way through and exercise their personality online knowing full-well that they've nothing to really fear.

iridescentfyre · Jan 28, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Well, I certainly didn't mean to be an asshole with anything I said, but the brutal truth of the matter is that its not a very good build and people in-game know it. Taurucis, I can appreciate that you want the Urgoz reward for your warrior and feel there is no other recourse, but personally I think you'd have a much easier time getting a group as a normal Dragon Slash/"Save Yourselves!" spammer than relying on someone's charity to let you in a B/P group at the cost of a R/Rt.

Personally I will entertain the probability that in practice your build would "work"… but that isn't going to convince a PUG to let you in.

netniwk · Jan 28, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

my 2 cents: You said you want pkm on your warrior because you already maxed 3 titles,are these very money/time cosuming titles? If they are just protector titles,get koabd with your ranger.A litle more time consuming,but in the end,it will pay off.

If you realy want to play with a pet on a warrior,use a weapon you can atleast use a warrior weapon for the runes. A hammer warrior with ferocious strike isn't even that bad.

If you realy want to play with a warrior with a pet AND a bow,your build is pretty much the best you can make out of this rather unusual combination.gratz,you won't be able to convince many of the elitist players to allow you in a group though.Maybe you could join a guild that is a bit more openminded?

Taurucis · Jan 28, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Well, I certainly didn't mean to be an asshole with anything I said

Actually Iridescent, you were one of the few who gave answers that weren't hauled out of the trash can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

my 2 cents: You said you want pkm on your warrior because you already maxed 3 titles,are these very money/time cosuming titles? If they are just protector titles,get koabd with your ranger.A litle more time consuming,but in the end,it will pay off.

I already have Tyrian GM Cartographer on my warrior, and it was a massive pain in the ass. I don't want to go through Lornar's Pass again. And my Asura/Norn titles are pretty high, whereas I haven't even started EotN on my ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

If you realy want to play with a pet on a warrior,use a weapon you can atleast use a warrior weapon for the runes. A hammer warrior with ferocious strike isn't even that bad.

Well, I want to show off my rainbow phoenix to people other than H/H.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

If you realy want to play with a warrior with a pet AND a bow,your build is pretty much the best you can make out of this rather unusual combination.gratz,you won't be able to convince many of the elitist players to allow you in a group though.Maybe you could join a guild that is a bit more openminded?

The problem is, pretty much everyone is an elitist player.

MagmaRed · Jan 28, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Warrior has the best armor in the game, with only Paragon coming close. Why stand at the back with a bow when you have the armor to stand in the front?

Warrior has the lowest energy regen, and lowest max energy. Why reduce that regen with a Zealous bow, and lower the damage with a +5 energy mod? Ranger doesn't need a zealous bow, but can do much better with one, and can get 15% more damage than a Warrior using +5 energy.

With 15 Strength, you only add 15% armor penetration, and with only 3 Beast Mastery, your pet does crap damage, and gets rezed with almost no health, AND when it dies, it disables your skills for a LONG time. 10 energy for Comfort means you won't be keeping it alive very well, especially since it won't offer much healing with only 3 attribute points.

If the only thing you want W/R for is a Rainbow Phoenix, then come up with a build that makes use of the Warriors strengths, and the pet at the same time. Barrage on a Warrior is a struggle to keep energy, and the pet is a HINDRANCE. If you only use Barrage on 3 or more monsters, how will you be helpful when dealing with scattered groups, single foes, or trying to kill off that one monster attacking your Monk? Ranger can Barrage single foes and still get the extra damage from it, and not have energy problems.

As mentioned, there are several options for a Warrior to use a pet. None of them use a bow, as a Warrior can't handle the energy for those attacks. IWAY is one option, but the Ferocious Strike and Hammer builds also work. Don't think Hammer is the only option though. The pet, with enough attribute points can supply nice extra damage, and supply energy and adrenaline with Ferocious Strike. Axe and Sword can do well with a pet.

Trust me, Barrage is not the only way to make use of a pet, especially for a Warrior.

Jetdoc · Jan 28, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I dedcied to try an impartial test of this build last night, and came up with the following:

1. Energy management isn't a huge problem with using barrage (given the zealous bow), as long as there were at least 3 enemies clumped together. If the group fanned out at all (or if you had to change targets to kill a priority one), energy ran out after 4-5 hits.

2. Energy management became a significant problem, however, with rezzing your pet (especially if you have to do multiple rezzes in mid battle). A key with a B/P is keeping your meat shield up (especially now that pets do not leave exploitable corpses), and this build doesn't allow you to do that.

3. The build lacks an interrupt, which is pretty key against certain creatures. I had to depend on my other B/Pers to do the interrupting for me, which kinda gimped my value to the team.

4. The build doesn't have a Spirit (e.g. Favorable Winds or Winnowing), which also forced me to rely on other B/Pers.

5. The damage was actually similar to a standard B/P, but less than a R/Rt.

6. The lack of a hard rez hurt in case of wipes.

Again, this is definitely a functional build, but unfortunately it is probable sub-optimal to other B/Pers for the reasons I described above.

Taurucis · Jan 28, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

If the only thing you want W/R for is a Rainbow Phoenix, then come up with a build that makes use of the Warriors strengths, and the pet at the same time. Barrage on a Warrior is a struggle to keep energy, and the pet is a HINDRANCE. If you only use Barrage on 3 or more monsters, how will you be helpful when dealing with scattered groups, single foes, or trying to kill off that one monster attacking your Monk? Ranger can Barrage single foes and still get the extra damage from it, and not have energy problems.

I'm starting to believe that Warrior doesn't have any strengths at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

As mentioned, there are several options for a Warrior to use a pet. None of them use a bow, as a Warrior can't handle the energy for those attacks. IWAY is one option, but the Ferocious Strike and Hammer builds also work. Don't think Hammer is the only option though. The pet, with enough attribute points can supply nice extra damage, and supply energy and adrenaline with Ferocious Strike. Axe and Sword can do well with a pet.

You usually get ridiculed for running IWAY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Trust me, Barrage is not the only way to make use of a pet, especially for a Warrior.

Examples please?